tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post231147407305186670..comments2024-03-24T11:30:08.199-07:00Comments on Can you believe?: Why Haiti?Johan Maurerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13771067774042071617noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-16067418288328225092010-01-31T10:00:50.195-08:002010-01-31T10:00:50.195-08:00You should read the following articles on the his...You should read the following articles on the historical background of Haiti:<br /><br />http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20100124/cleisure/cleisure5.html<br /><br />http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20100131/cleisure/cleisure2.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-73672816978161757632010-01-27T16:21:26.901-08:002010-01-27T16:21:26.901-08:00Anonymous, the best I can suggest for you is to re...Anonymous, the best I can suggest for you is to re-read Johan's original post more thoughtfully. Most of your questions were answered there.<br /><br />Ciaokevin robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07336902422644197456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-55259624006855973192010-01-27T05:17:20.604-08:002010-01-27T05:17:20.604-08:00You say that evil “succeeds better in places wher...You say that evil “succeeds better in places where economic, social, and political dysfunction disarm the populace”. Where is there proof of this in the Quaker ministry site in Highgate Jamaica, the example which Johan has used to support his argument.<br /><br /> Too often when people defend themselves against racially motivated attacks they are accused of pulling the race card. Racism and paternalism are sometimes too subtle to recognize by those who are ignorant regarding the areas they seek to demonize and speak with such authority about. <br /><br />Do you even know anything about Highgate (St. Mary, Jamaica.)? Where does Johan get his information regarding Highgate from. I hope the due process of ethics have been observed in this regard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-6655009650757628212010-01-26T18:55:46.767-08:002010-01-26T18:55:46.767-08:00I suppose I should also point out that while 1930&...I suppose I should also point out that while 1930's and 1940's Germany was white and more or less prosperous, the Nazi party's rise to power was built in the 1920's by blaming targeted races for the destroyed German culture and economy of the Weimar Republic.<br /><br />It was the economic nightmare of hungry, poor, and hopeless 1920's Germany that made the Nazi Party a viable alternative.<br /><br />Ciaokevin robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07336902422644197456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-81438023809619708512010-01-26T17:05:10.904-08:002010-01-26T17:05:10.904-08:00Anonymous, my friend, so far nobody in this conver...Anonymous, my friend, so far nobody in this conversation has been playing the race card except you, as you pick apart Johan's quite even-handed replies looking for trouble.<br /><br />Haiti has long been an economic basket case, as you point out. And it has a long history of death, disaster, ignorance, evil, naivete, and opportunity, from the slave trade and plantation economy to Papa Doc, Baby Doc, and the Tonton Macoutes. Most Haitians are black.<br /><br />Cook County has a long history of political and economic corruption, and was the birthplace of the savage mid-American version of violent organized crime. Most of those folks were white.<br /><br />Evil is color neutral, but succeeds better in places where economic, social, and political dysfunction disarm the populace, make it vulnerable, and provide ways for evil to prosper.<br /><br />Johans original post was an examination of whether economic and historical issues created a zone vulnerable to evil, not skin color.kevin robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07336902422644197456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-4037900787616112962010-01-26T15:11:09.277-08:002010-01-26T15:11:09.277-08:00Am I to assume from the rhetoric of your response ...Am I to assume from the rhetoric of your response to Forrest’s comment that “the correct deadly mixture” of supposedly innate “evil, ignorance, etc” was not quite as potent in your native Cook County and other parts of the ‘developed’ world as it was in Haiti? Furthermore, is poverty and adversity the necessary precursor for evil? Germany was one of the most financially prosperous nations in the world when the holocaust occurred. <br /><br />We need to be careful about the inferences we make about how innate certain “personality” characteristics are with regard to persons from specific Geographical and cultural regions. Such inferences form the foundation for racism.<br /><br />There were certain historical determinants of Haiti’s present economic condition. These are what myself and Forrest are referring toAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-13505617412935922812010-01-26T13:35:11.130-08:002010-01-26T13:35:11.130-08:00The location in Jamaica was Highgate. And I grew u...The location in Jamaica was Highgate. And I grew up in Cook County, Illinois--we certainly knew what corruption was!Johan Maurerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13771067774042071617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-47500017530582860182010-01-26T13:18:57.242-08:002010-01-26T13:18:57.242-08:00I hope I am inaccurate in my interpretation of Jo...I hope I am inaccurate in my interpretation of Johan’s response to Forrest’s comment. I don’t think that the factors that are implied to “magnify evil” in Haiti are well understood. The historical issues connected with Haiti’s current situation are best described in an article by Professor H. Beckles in the Daily Gleaner (Jamaica) (Sunday January 24, 2010). <br />After Haiti’s independence in 1804 the nation was “declared an illegal pariah state” and was shunned and prevented from participation in the world economy. This was the catalyst for Haiti’s current economic condition, as in 1825 bankrupt Haitian citizens were forced to pay compensation to the French government for their own emancipation. Haiti paid the “last installment” in 1922. Other first world nations also assisted France in collecting “compensation” from Haiti during the 20th century.<br /><br />Concerning the Johan’s reference to the Quaker ministry site in Jamaica, “troubled for decades by poor management and corruption”, I am curious about where in Jamaica that might have been. This reference to Jamaica seems to disregard the pervasive corruption in other first world countries. Is corruption peculiar to third world and developing countries? Has the first world no corruption?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-13633485736068330782010-01-23T13:51:55.767-08:002010-01-23T13:51:55.767-08:00There are clusters of death and disaster in the wo...There are clusters of death and disaster in the world, and also clusters of ignorance, evil, naivete, and opportunity, often in deadly mixtures. The evil that afflicts Haiti is in many human hearts--some would say potentially in all human hearts--but the factors that magnify that evil, rather than mitigate it, are not evenly spread out on the planet.<br /><br />Some of that deadly ignorance, unfortunately, is clustered right in the USA--even among people who are personally generous and caring. Americans have an amazing record of private philanthropy (even though our official foreign aid is proportionally way behind some other countries'). But we also often stay ignorant, perhaps even prefer to stay ignorant about how our public policies and corporate activities actually sabotage that generosity.<br /><br />It is not necessary to demonize the whole USA. The average American is no more evil than the average Haitian, even though our collective ignorance has devastating effects on millions. And aside from that, if we adopt that kind of rhetoric, we will have no chance to open people's eyes to the personal and national transformations we want.Johan Maurerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13771067774042071617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-90425756758753078622010-01-23T13:02:59.141-08:002010-01-23T13:02:59.141-08:00Hard to say what the cleric meant. It sounds like ...Hard to say what the cleric meant. It sounds like he is asserting that Haiti suffers from a moral crime, but unless he specifies all that I can come up with is that he's too vague to understand. Perhaps in the context of other remarks his speech would be more coherent.<br /><br />He would make a fine Quaker, though. Lots of words, little said. <br /><br />oops, sorrykevin robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07336902422644197456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-17279696248828590692010-01-23T11:52:56.964-08:002010-01-23T11:52:56.964-08:00What that little country is most cursed by-- is do...What that little country is most cursed by-- is domination by the United States. It's a poor country because our corporations get to set the wages and working conditions for their major product, what kind of government they'll let our government allow there (and what kind of governments our government has actively promoted there), what kind of unmitigated poverty and corruption results from collaboration between their elites and ours. & therefore, what kind of cheap, collapsible buildings they had ready to fall on them, what kind of "aid" was allowed to reach them, how much delayed by fear and ideology.<br /><br />So if there's some occult Evil at work in Haiti, that needs to be named and unmasked, it lives in the US.<br /><br />All that said, I too am often bewildered by how much sheer Wrath gets visited on the peoples of some unlucky regions, seemingly no more wicked than those in this country benefiting from their misery. "I fear for my country, when I remember that God is just."forresthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03214745625847174676noreply@blogger.com