tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post7964310777754703790..comments2024-03-07T02:36:52.536-08:00Comments on Can you believe?: Worship seeking understanding, part fourJohan Maurerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13771067774042071617noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-44883780502638123192007-10-24T07:16:00.000-07:002007-10-24T07:16:00.000-07:00When I look at the matter from the viewpoint of th...When I look at the matter from the viewpoint of the unchurched, it seems to me that they are not coming to evangelical Protestant churches because they don't find anything sufficiently appealing to them there.<BR/><BR/>And there are all sorts of obstacles I can think of that might stand in their way — from the seeming spiritual arrogance of "I've found God", to the lack of anything that evangelicals do on Sunday morning that really seems more appealing to the unchurched than staying home and relaxing.<BR/><BR/>In both those instances (and in many others as well), the indictment that the unchurched would have to make, of what evangelical churches have to offer, is really not terribly far from what the early Friends were getting at when they talked about "will-worship".<BR/><BR/>And the words of Paul come to my mind, in his first letter to the believers at Corinth — that "<I>...I, brethren, when I came to you .... I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power....</I>"<BR/><BR/>What Paul was talking about there was of course something quite different, both from being a "connoisseur of silence" as you put it, and from being a typical Christian-engaged-in-outreach. It wasn't will-worship at all. I could go on and on all day about what the differences are between Paul's activity and most modern "outreach"; but frankly, my impression is that either a person sees the differences without my help, or else he/she isn't really going to get my point at all.<BR/><BR/>If I "do outreach" to the people I wait on at the department store where I work, it accomplishes nothing. But if I tell them how I quit my job two summers ago to walk across the country from Nebraska to Virginia, because I'd been invited to deliver a talk to a Quaker body and it came to me that if I walked the distance I'd be given what to say, it stops them dead in their tracks and for five minutes they don't want to talk of anything else.<BR/><BR/>For those five minutes, I'm not a connoisseur of silence or a person doing outreach either; I'm in a position analogous to the apostle's, simply reporting the news.<BR/><BR/>You understand, of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-16075617271927896832007-10-23T07:16:00.000-07:002007-10-23T07:16:00.000-07:00My mother always used to say, "The life I live is ...My mother always used to say, "The life I live is the prayer I pray." And that is just a statement of fact. A scary one sometimes! And worship is how I honor (or don't honor) God in how I live day by day - our true spiritual worship in the words of Paul.<BR/><BR/>So emphasizing what happens in the hour or so we designate as "worship" on a Sunday morning really is missing the point. And unprogrammed Quakers are just as guilty of this as those who make a big, slick production of their worship service. This leads to worship of a form, which is idolatry.Bill Samuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00752443575410023776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-49680559516321014152007-10-20T23:35:00.000-07:002007-10-20T23:35:00.000-07:00I'm feeling very blessed by all of these comments....I'm feeling very blessed by all of these comments. (And, Judy, it's so good to hear from you again!)<BR/><BR/>I keep coming back to one of my perennial themes: the respectful division of labor. We are fortunate to have people among us who do "inreach," who make our Friendly communities ... friendly. (And who give us safety and respite when we need it.) <BR/><BR/>But we need to make a concerted effort to empower the outreachers and evangelists, those who are peculiarly gifted to communicate our faith and ethic beyond our tribal boundaries. I'm convinced there are far more of them among us than you'd guess from our generally stagnant growth patterns, but we don't generally affirm them. <BR/><BR/>And the point cannot just be to issue mating calls to gather likeminded people to our existing patterns, but to cry out in God's name to those who ready to risk everything for the pearl of great price--intimacy with the God who loved them into being in the first place--and in some cases to invite them to join us in a Lamb's-War confrontation with confusion and oppression. But to ask people to take that leap means that we as Friends should also take that same risk. The goal isn't to enhance Quakers as we are now, but to open a new and living Way. It's a Way that others (outside Friends) are also opening, but we do so with the resources of our heritage and discipleship.Johan Maurerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13771067774042071617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-56893469487147260582007-10-20T19:44:00.000-07:002007-10-20T19:44:00.000-07:00Johan- I'm so happy to have found your blog and to...Johan- I'm so happy to have found your blog and to listen deeply to your message.<BR/><BR/>These days I am living with questions regarding blessing (verb). How do we bless the Lord? What does blessing mean? How am I to be open to giving and receiving blessing? Am I still enough, and open enough, to be in blessing with peoples of the earth? with nature? with animals? <BR/><BR/>I suppose I am using different language than "living Worship," but it is the same.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for being faithful.<BR/>Blessing and joy to you and Judy,<BR/><BR/>Judy Brutz, Commit to BlessingJudy Brutzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424589887932194612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-19821500378915007362007-10-20T07:52:00.000-07:002007-10-20T07:52:00.000-07:00Christ continues to reveal to me Paul, don’t worry...Christ continues to reveal to me Paul, don’t worry about the theology or any other human characteristic of the person who sits next to you in Meeting.<BR/><BR/>This is my work with my<BR/>people in silence not your work!<BR/><BR/>Paul<BR/><BR/>Christ is come and doth dwell in the hearts of his people and<BR/>reigns there. And thousands, at the door of whose hearts he hath been<BR/>knocking, have opened to him, and he is come in, and doth sup with<BR/>them and they with him, the heavenly supper with the heavenly and spiritual man. George FoxAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-85802937042241005702007-10-18T18:28:00.000-07:002007-10-18T18:28:00.000-07:00Johann - As one who came back to faith in an early...Johann - As one who came back to faith in an early charismatic evangelical music worship based church, Sally Morgenthaler's writings were like a breath of fresh air. Yes, Martin, I am surprised, at times, by how inbred our churches are, and how tribal our own Quaker faith can be. I believe that Friends have much to offer the world in 'knowing experientially' the sweet spot of worship in the fullness of the Presence in the midst, no 'embroidery' required. Tonight, after a really bad week, soon after I finish this post, I am walking to a neighbor's. She has invited me in the past to come down when I am struggling. Tonight, I am taking her up on the offer, and I hope that there will be a sweet spot of sweet gift in this moment of connection. it is good to read that spot must be filled with the Holy Spirit, and that it is possible, even in my struggle, to start from God, instead of away from God. A weighty Friend from my meeting often asks me "Can you take meeting for worship with you?" it is not the technique, maybe it is just the trying.anjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10907362042684864253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-55288650285769837232007-10-18T16:00:00.000-07:002007-10-18T16:00:00.000-07:00What's consuming me right now is the question of w...What's consuming me right now is the question of who "we" are. Our churches and meetings are often so obsessed with meeting the needs and expectations of their settled members and so many of their structures are oriented inwardly.<BR/><BR/>Reading Pink Dandelion's new book on Friends, it strikes me again how Paul's conception of Christianity was not tied to a kind of Jewish tribalism but made for the world. Certainly Jesus preached widely and almost had an allergic reaction to the pious religious establishment. How then have our churches become their own tribal compounds?Martin Kelleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06999620933648327663noreply@blogger.com