tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post8384338331593450355..comments2024-03-24T11:30:08.199-07:00Comments on Can you believe?: An end to coercive ChristianityJohan Maurerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13771067774042071617noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-6746849539412929662016-05-03T02:32:04.101-07:002016-05-03T02:32:04.101-07:00Bill, thanks for your patience with this comment s...Bill, thanks for your patience with this comment system. I regret my experiment with Google Minus.<br /><br />Over the years, I've read a lot of commentaries on women's roles in the Bible, and specifically on Paul's apparent rules.<br /><br />Given that commentaries differ wildly, I've decided that my bias will be toward freedom, which to me is the clear bias of the Gospel, and seems to be implied by Paul's own relationships with his co-workers. The threat to freedom is sin, which leads us back into slavery. There seems to be no danger from women and men upon whom the Spirit has been poured out, who follow their God-given gifts, and who exercise those gifts in mutual accountability to the community.<br /><br />The question about cherry-picking is a valid one. It seems impossible to force consistency onto the Scriptures; to insist that the text has evidence ONLY for egalitarianism or ONLY for limitations on women's roles is, to my mind, wrong. I have to conclude, with Peter Enns, that the Bible was not formed for the purpose of being mined for absolute, categorical rules. When the Bible is used as a source of categorical rules (beyond the explicit covenant commandments or the Acts 15 Council), I have to think about what extra-biblical agenda is being served by those who extract the rules. The Bible is a book formed by the collaboration of humans (operating in committees and councils with all the politics of such groups) and the Holy Spirit, and has no magic powers of its own, nor does it ever claim to have such powers. And it doesn't need such powers to make us wise unto salvation.<br /><br />As a political scientist, I tend to ask myself who benefits from specific choices of interpretation. When men alone claim supreme authority to do licensing and quality control, it is not surprising that the beneficiaries of their decisions are men! I choose to identify with a tradition of church governance and biblical interpretation that breaks this monopoly. Those who like this monopoly are of course going to continue to try to maintain it, and it is certainly important for me to relate to those brothers and sisters in Christ with respect. I hope that we egalitarians are equally credited with trying to discern the best way to give voice to the Gospel of freedom in Christ.<br /><br />Finally, I'd like to return to the book that led to this entry, <i>If Eve Only Knew</i>, and recommend its study of the relevant biblical passages. And I also want to re-recommend Sarah Ruden's <i>Paul Among the People</i>, which I wrote about <a href="http://johanpdx.blogspot.com/2012/09/lost-and-found.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Johan Maurerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13771067774042071617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-78316228689186289072016-05-02T15:17:35.367-07:002016-05-02T15:17:35.367-07:00The central difficulty of man/woman egalitarianism...The central difficulty of man/woman egalitarianism in Christianity are the "household Code" passages in the letters of Paul and Peter. The same ones where slaves are told to be obedient even if their masters are harsh, the same passages which led the vast majority of Christians to support slavery for many hundreds of years.<br /><br />It's doubtful this literal reading of the NT (and the Old) will change anytime soon. (Heck, some conservative Christian leaders even now still claim that slavery isn't inherently evil!)<br /><br />In fact (except in more moderate Friends meetings and in liberal mainline churches), Christian denominations are less open to women leaders than 100 years ago. In the early 20th century, many Pentecostal denominations had plenty of active women pastors, but now most of them have only a few. <br /><br />Only 8% of churches are led by women in the U.S.! And, of course, in the Roman Catholic and other conservative denominations no woman can be ordained.<br /><br />The rising Calvinist influence in all denominations, (even Quakers!), is causing a turn back away from women's leadership also.<br /><br />When my wife and I were members of California Yearly Meeting, I don't remember a single woman pastor. (Of course, the leaders of CYM also supported nuclear weapons at our Yearly Meeting. When our own meeting hired a fighter pilot, we left the Friends for a while.)Daniel Wilcoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05178375087492786696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-69482367604112465962016-05-02T07:08:09.916-07:002016-05-02T07:08:09.916-07:00Perhaps the disappearance of my comments was for t...Perhaps the disappearance of my comments was for the best!<br /><br />I continue to wonder how your approach relates to Biblical texts concerning gender roles in and out of the church. Daniel Wilcox's comment also seems to have disappeared. He saw a clear difference between your assertion of complete and unqualified equality between the sexes and Paul's teaching on the subject.<br /><br />Do you regard the Bible as irrelevant regarding sex roles? If it is relevant, do you "cherry pick" texts to fit your views? A Mennonite (and formerly a Friend) told me that his father (who later joined Friends) once pastored a nondenominational church. His father wrote in his memoirs that he knew what he wanted to say in his sermons; the problem was finding Bible texts to back his opinions up!!!Bill Rushbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00579099372065932809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7217199.post-16832173368923972802016-04-29T22:22:18.935-07:002016-04-29T22:22:18.935-07:00I just delinked my blog from Google Plus because t... <br />I just delinked my blog from Google Plus because the link was allowing only those with Google accounts to make comments. But existing comments seem to have disappeared... (sigh) I don't have time at the moment to figure this out, but obviously it needs working on. There was an important comment on my blog from William Rushby and now it seems to have disappeared....Johan Maurerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13771067774042071617noreply@blogger.com